MAC Expansion: A 16-Team Proposal
by Budweiser_5 on Oct 11, 2010 6:50 PM CDT
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[ed: Bumping to the front. Some outside-the-box ideas here. —Sussman]
These past six months have been an exciting time in college football. Conference re-alignment has captured the attention of Big Six fans and Big Six hopefuls. The season seems to have put the talks on hold for now but all indications point to more changes. What is the best outcome for the MAC after the dust has settled? With six WAC teams hung out to dry, rumblings in the East over expansion, and several 1-AA schools looking to move up this could could be a great opportunity for the MAC to reshuffle the deck. As an Ohio University student I'm pretty interested in possible moves that could change the face of the conference.
Expansion in the MAC should serve three purposes:
1. Cement itself above the WAC and Sun Belt in football
2. Transition into a consistent two-bid basketball conference
3. Improve its academic/ state profile
Step 1: Eastern Michigan is Out (Self explanatory for followers of the MAC)
Step 2: Go South
Searching for teams south of Ohio serves all three purposes of MAC expansion. Coercing Sun Belt teams Western Kentucky and Mid Tennessee to join the MAC reduces their football league to seven. Even in the event of a total WAC collapse where La Tech joins up with the Sun Belt, an 8 team Sun Belt just doesn't seem strong enough to out pace a 16 team MAC.
Western Kentucky University has a strong mid-major basketball program. The have a top 10 mid-major college basketball home environment. They have three NCAA tournament wins in the last three years. The Hilltoppers are the worst team in college football but when you consider the addition of the state of Kentucky to the MAC, and their Tier 1 University academic status, it's a plus for the MAC.
Middle Tennessee State University is also a Tier 1 University. They bring the state of Tennessee into the MAC. Almost instantly, the Blue Raiders would compete in the top half of the MAC for football (Bowl Winners in '09). A consistent 16-19 win men's basketball program helps with the stability of the MAC for basketball. When you consider how critical they are to the demise of the Sun Belt, they are a must.
Appalachian State University is the number three up-and-coming university in the south according to U.S. News. As 1-AA powers they have developed a following. While their competitiveness in the MAC will be uncharted, the addition of North Carolina as the ninth MAC state is more than enticing. 24-13 last year in the Southern for basketball shows that a bump up to the MAC could help this program blossom. The university has just released a statement regarding their interest in going D1. Let's make it happen.
Step 3: Put Up or Shut Up Temple
Temple is not a lock to join the Big East in the event of their expansion. As a suitor of their men's basketball program the MAC needs to remind them of their troubled past with the private powers of college basketball. The MAC needs to express their commitment to a two-bid conference and remind Temple who was there in the Owls darkest hour. Posting an ultimatum to Temple might lead the university to fully commit to the MAC that has a plan instead of waiting for an invitation from someone else operating in the unknown.
Step 4: Marshall/ 1-AA
The final step is not mandatory. If Temple doesn't add basketball and possibly even removes football it still would leave a balanced league without Marshall (14-team league). Herd fans don't want to come back to the same old MAC. I'm assuming their administration feels the same. But the new MAC, the one described above, might entice Marshall with the prospects of competitiveness in both basketball and football. The Herd would be a top third team in both sports. They have a great fan base and the closer away games would give their fans an opportunity to travel. Not to mention this adds West Virginia back into the MAC. That makes 10 states with MAC schools; that's just amazing for a mid-major conference. Half the U.S. population would have a relative that went/goes to a MAC school (slight exaggeration). The MAC could also look to add other 1-AA powers in the region to boost the conferences identity. To the west, Missouri Valley school Illinois State would add to conference's basketball strength while taking a hit with football. To the east, 1-AA football powers James Madison or even Delaware might be worth the risk in the name of expanding the MAC's footprint.
In Closing:
After everything is said and done the MAC looks to shape up as a North/South Conference in this hypothetical expansion. This is just meant for discussion. I have no sources that would lead one to believe the MAC is actually pursuing these goals but throw some of your own ideas out there. We're at the dawn of a new age. The MAC cannot afford to play dead.
This post was submitted by one of our esteemed readers and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or thoughts of Hustle Belt.
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One condition
for inviting Western Kentucky is that they permanently retire the particular logo that you chose to put on the map. That said, they could face off annually with BGSU in the Battle for Bowling Green.
I love the plan. It got better with every step, and booting EMU is a great first step. Well done.
Show them Ohio's here.
by slidingscrapes on Oct 11, 2010 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
are you kidding me?
you mean the logo, and not Big Red, right? Cuz IMMA GRIP N SIP.
I think the condition for Wacky joining the MAC is they have to change their fight song, because we had it first.
I understand the expansion talk...
But I must be in the minority in that I honestly don’t want a huge regional footprint. Buffalo and Temple are pretty far as is. I like a tight, close-knit regional conference. Makes for good rivalries and travel.
EMU
What is the likelihood that the MAC would seriously ever consider booting out EMU? Let me preface this comment by saying I don’t know much about how this works behind the scenes, but my “feeling” is that the powers that be in the state of Michigan would not let EMU get left behind while CMU and WMU went forward.
This is a fun proposal. Always cool to think of crazy ways these conference realignments could end. However, I disagree that Temple would ever move its bball team to MAC unless there was a doomsday-type scenario for east coast major basketball.
by blackandgoldcorey on Oct 12, 2010 9:44 AM CDT reply actions
I don't think it'll happen either.
EMU, if I’m correct, pretty much holds their own in every other sport except football, so I really don’t see them as an obvious ejection. And, I think you’re right when you say the other Michigan schools will stick with EMU and keep it from happening.
And I agree as well that Temple would be interested in moving the rest of their sports to the MAC. They’d simply dominate. I’d look to see Temple moving somewhere in the next 2 or 3 years (at the most).
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
EMU will never be worth while for the MAC
The reason I see Eastern Michigan as an “obvious” dismissal from the MAC and ultimately the first step is not based on their athletic program strength. Most MAC schools are in the shadow of a Big Six counterpart, but none are as close as EMU is to Big Blue. The Ypsilanti campus is just under seven miles from Ann Arbor. The Eagles can practically smell the Maize and Blue. Couple this with the fact that EMU is a commuter school and the fact that the football and basketball stadium are two miles from campus and it becomes apparent that almost no alumni nor student will ever consider themselves “a part of” EMU.
Eastern is the first step because it will outline the direction the conference wants to head. Even in a failed attempt to remove the Eagles (CMU and WMU veto likely) the MAC will establish a bar for the minimal level of support a MAC school must have from their alumni and students. The 4,000 EMU actually averages in football attendance is half of the FCS average.
The MAC needs to sell the why, not the how. What I mean by that is we’re a geographically and economically similar conference of schools/ fan base that support our alma mater’s both academically and athletically because it is a bond most of us created during our time in college. Eastern Michigan will never have a MAC level of athletic support and for that reason they must be removed.
The thought process is solid
but you and I both know EMU isn’t going anywhere.
Now, I do like the idea you have of the conference “acting” as if they’re serious about removing EMU, knowing it’ll never happen, and using that as a baseline for support, facilities, etc. when bringing in new members.
And you’re right, EMU will always struggle in the shadow of Michigan, but this has never changed. They’ve always been the step-child. However, let it be known that EMU did help to drive away support by changing their mascot. I would think they could, at least for a little while, develop a groundswelling of alumni support simply by changing the name back to the Hurons and marketing the hell out of it.
Really, it looks bad that EMU folded on the whole mascot thing while their in-state counterpart only changed the logo. It pissed off a ton of EMU alum. Heck, I know of two EMU “families” who quit making donations to the school over it. A little silly of a reason? Yup. But resurrecting the Huron would help out.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
EMU will not drop any time soon
They are competitive in almost every non revenue sport and they are picking up their game in Basketball.
Maybe the MAC lets EMU drop football, or forces them to be an FCS independent, and let Temple contiune the FB only membership to balance out the divisions.
by Tim Riordan on Oct 12, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the idea
One concern that I would have with this super MAC conference is the fact that it’s so spread out. I would think that sooner or later the conference would break up like the original WAC did due to travel concerns by its members.
I don't think I see travel as being that big of a deal with this alignment.
Outside of the NIU vs Buffalo/Temple/Appalacian St/Deleware, I don’t see too much of a travel strain on any of the schools. Travel is still very reasonable for pretty much every school. However, I would disagree with Bud 5 in that I think the travel would prevent the conference from switching to a North/South Division alignment. It’s that East/West travel that is a bitch.
I’d probably align it this way:
West: NIU, CMU, WMU, Toledo, Bowling Green, Ball State, Western Kentucky
East: OHIO, Akron, Kent State, Buffalo, Temple, Appalacian State, Mid Tennessee (when did they drop the “St.”?), Marshall
And if they ended up keeping EMU and droping Temple, just add EMU to the West and move Bowling Green or Toledo to the East.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Middle Tennessee didn’t drop the “State” any more than did Bowling Green, Kent, or Ball.
Also, their logo is positioned pretty far east on that map; Murphreesboro is just outside Nashville. They’re very close to Western Kentucky University, and they have an established rivalry, which is why adding one school would probably require adding both.
Alignment: For travel sake you have to go north south.
If You convinced Temple to Join or EMU to drop Football
North: Buffalo, NIU, WMU, CMU, Kent, Akron, Toledo, Bolwing Green
South: Ohio, Marshall, MTSU, Appy, BSU, Miami, WKU, Temple
If Temple Stays and EMU leaves
North: Buffalo, NIU, WMU, CMU, Kent, Akron, Toledo, EMU
South: Ohio, Marshall, MTSU, Appy, BSU, Miami, WKU, Bolwing Green
Several factors often get left out in discussions of conference expansion:
1. The MAC is not just football and men’s basketball. There are 23 MAC sports. This kind of expansion might make sense in terms of football-only schools, or football & men’s basketball. But when you start thinking about the added cost to each school to send the swimming team, volleyball team, soccer teams, etc. longer distances, it becomes unlikely. Schools are cutting non-revenue sports programs (California cut gymnastics, for example), and this is why. Keeping things geographically tight allows schools to cost-effectively maintain those programs.
2. There are two factors driving expansion at the AQ conferences, and neither of those factors apply to the MAC.
2A. One factor that was applicable to the Big (11) Ten and the PAC-10 was the desire to hold a football championship game, which requires at least 12 members. A football championship game for those conferences will surely sell out, draw decent TV ratings, and make enough money for the conference to cover added costs. This doesn’t apply to the MAC, because there are already 13 football schools.
2B. The other primary factor driving conference expansion this summer was TV contracts, partly the number of conference games that can be offered and partly expanding conference footprints to gain access to prime media markets. The former is why the Big (11) Ten is looking at going from 8 to 9 conference games in a couple years, and the latter is why the Big (11) Ten reportedly considered Rutgers and why everyone wants Texas and Texas A&M (which will presumably stay in the same conference). Neither of these apply to the MAC. Number of conference games isn’t an issue, because MAC games are going untelevised. Conference footprint isn’t really an issue, because there’s no MAC TV channel akin to the Big Ten Network.
3. Speaking of all those other sports, as Tackle Box pointed out EMU is fairly solid in every sport other than football. As recently as 2008, EMU won their fourth Reese Trophy (for top overall men’s athletic teams in the MAC), having won MAC titles in cross country, indoor track and field, swimming and diving, and golf that year. Also, teams like getting a nearly-guaranteed win — why do you think everyone schedules FCS teams? — and EMU football gives the near-guarantee of a win without the stigma of playing a team with 25% fewer scholarship players.
Personally
I would prefer that you try to Lure in some Quality FCS programs / Basketball Programs. Geographically it would make way more sense to try to lure in some east coast programs to give Temple an incentive for non revenue sports and help the MAC’s tv footprint.
Try to get
Delaware, UMass, StoneyBrook to join.
That Gets the MAC to 16 FB teams, if you can swing Temple (unlikely). If you cant swing Temple try to pick someone off from the sunbelt or look to add another good FCS/Basketball program in the west (Illinois, Iowa, Missouri).
Then You break it up east west
If Temple Joins:
East: Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Ohio, UMass, Deleware, StoneyBrook, Temple
West: CMU, WMU, EMU, Toledo, BGSU, Miami, Ball, NIU
If Temple leaves
East: Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Ohio, UMass, Deleware, StoneyBrook, EMU
West: CMU, WMU, EMU, Toledo, BGSU, Miami, Ball, NIU, (SEMO/ISU/….)
Personally,
I think trying to keep Temple is a waste of time. They needed us a few years ago, but their sights have always been on a bigger (stature-wise) conference than the MAC.
I really think if you’re going to expand, it’s going to have to be from smaller schools (with good basketball programs) from the midwest to the Appalacians.
Marshall might come back, but they might not just out of principle.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Marshall will not be coming back
C-USA is a better conference in terms of TV revenue and NCAA Bids, why leave that for the MAC? Travel expenses, really?
There are plenty of Good Basketball programs with FCS teams attached in good markets
UMass: Boston, Hartford
Delaware: DC, Baltimore, Northern VA
StoneyBrook: NYC
Like you I don’t think Temple Stays but why let that keep us from moving east?
As far as Marshall
I was just wondering (kinda aloud) about the C-USA getting raided of some teams leaving some instability in the conference. But you’re probably right, they won’t move.
As for the teams you’re mentioning, I’m a bit un-easy with their East Coastyness. I know that the name of the conference isn’t the end-all-be-all of what makes up the conference, but it is the MID-American Conference and none of those teams are Mid-American. Although, I suppose they could just rebrand the conf. and call it the MAC without the letters actually meaning anything (and one might be able to make the arguement they already have).
As for adding teams, there are plenty of teams out there, that fit geographically into the MAC, who could compete in football and would give the conference a big boost in basketball. Why wouldn’t the conference start there?
Also, as it stands, the geographic center of the conference is pretty much Detriot. it’d be probably Cincinnati or Columbus if the OPs original alignment plan came to fruition. But if the teams you’re suggesting were added, you’d have a shift of the geographic center to somewhere like Pittsburgh or maybe Cleveland. Also, you’d have a team like Buffalo going from being the Eastern-most school in the conference (Temple doesn’t count) to being somewhere in the middle. That would ask each school out west to add 3 or 4 trips to the East Coast for their swimming, soccer, golf, track, cross-country, etc., etc. each year. That’s a ton of travel expenses.
Ultimately, though, why wouldn’t the conference start it’s search with schools like Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Dayton, Indiana State, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin, Austin Peay, Murray State, Butler, Drake, or Northern Iowa just to name a few?
I would think adding a Butler and a Nothern Iowa (or Dayton if UNI is too far West) would absolutely resurrect the MAC basketball picuture.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
NO matter which way you move you're going to screw up the esixting center of mass...
And someone will be a bit put out because of it. Unless you decide to add a bunch of schools already in the footprint at which point the question of ‘why bother’ becomes a serious isse.
Southern Illinois makes sense but Dayton, Indiana State? what the hell does that buy the MAC? Butler won’t come, not for a second nor would Dayton. If you decide to add all the schools you’re talking about all you do is move the center west and make longer trips for Buffalo, Akron, Kent, and Ohio. And you gain no appreciable television markets in the process.
UMass gets you Boston, Stony Brook gets you NYC, Delaware gets you Baltimore, DC, Philly(ish). Would that mean one more long conference trip per team in the MAC per year for non revenue sports? sure but the offset in revenue markets would be huge.
Also the whole east coast camel came in the tent when Buffalo was admitted and then even more when Temple came (even if football only). The MAC will not improve while it just meanders as a bus league. We have all seen the conference start to fall behind in the past five years and it’s not going to get any better.
Priorities for expansion, because its the MAC
1) Academics
2) Institution Size/Budget
3) Competitiveness in athletics
4) Television Market
What we don’t need is a bunch of Youngstown states makeing the conference seem even more regional.
If you rank (or the MAC ranks) television market 4th
then why do you keep stressing the revenue markets of DC, NYC, Baltimore, etc?
And I’m confused by your Dayton comments. First you throw them in with Indiana State and wonder what they’d bring the MAC, then you say they’ll never even come to the MAC. Well, to be honest, I only picked them because of their location. I was looking for a team who had a strong basketball program, plays in a FCS football conf (Poineer), and fit geographically.
As for Butler, why wouldn’t they entertain the idea? They’re the Gonzaga of the Horizon League. They also play in the Pioneer League and would greatly benefit growing their football program. Are they simply not interested? If they aren’t, then whoever’s in charge there needs to check his head.
Success doesn’t last forever especially when you continue to play in the Horizon. Those teams are good but so was the MAC. At least in the MAC you have FBS football presence.
And, just to clarify, I wasn’t advocating adding all of those teams to the MAC. I was just throwing out names that I feel could be added fairly painlessly and could improve the conference as a whole while having less of an effect on the conference geographically and travel-wise overall.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Some Teams
Butler was in the MAC and I don’t see them returning. They are right in the middle of the Horizon league footprint. That conference now earns more basketball money than the MAC.
I’ve always thought Dayton and Xavier should try and make a move to the Missouri Valley Conference. The A10 is better than the MVC at the top with Temple and Xavier however there is a lot of dead wood in the A10 basketball conference and a lot of underlying instability.
From what I know Dayton, Xavier, Temple, Saint Louis, Charlotte, Fordham, UMass are all looking around at different conferences. Big East, CUSA, CAA, MVC. The A10 is just a temporary island for these schools.
The main reason a school would want to join the MAC would be to upgrade its all-sport affilation. Dayton and Butler would view the MAC as a downgrade. Or another reason to join the MAC is if a school has FBS ambitions.
Stony Brook I believe would accept a MAC invite on the ground of 1) UBuffalo already plays there, 2) It is a far better all-sport conference than the America East.
As far as other east coast additions I could see UMass wanting a cost effective way to transition to the FBS level and interestingly I could also see New Hamsphire. The UMass-UNH game drew 33,000 in Gillette this past weekend.
NIU needs a real rival
What about having ISU, WIU and/or SIU move up from the FCS?
The closest teams that NIU plays are WMU and Ball State. NIU and Ball State have a trophy game but it is not really considered a heated rivalry.
SIU is further than WMU or Ball State but then you at-least will have an instate rival that has been brewing the past few years. Positives for the MAC are that SIUs programs have been decent in both football and basketball the past ten years. I think this is the best choice for the MAC of the teams not listed in the article.
All 3 teams 2009 football attendance averages are close at 8,882 – 9,652 so they will need to up their numbers.
I have no knowledge of ISUs or WIU programs other than they are always good football games filled with a good competitive hatred against NIU.
TV and football
These two run everything, so while basketball presence is a nice bonus, it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things. Kent St basketball hasn’t returned 10% of the national attention that CMU-BSU football has in the last few years.
The cruddy east-coasty-ness of things is almost a must if the MAC plans to whore themselves out to ESPN the way they do. I’ve also heard from a very reliable source that Temple is really pushing for another east coast school to join if they were to come in for all sports. I also think they don’t really want to come in, though.
Personally, I like the idea of going south a bit. I sure as heck would prefer a road trip to North Carolina over one to some east coast cesspool.
Funny
I live on the East Coast and consider North Carolina a po-dunk experience.
If the rumors stick of TCU, Houston, UCF, and Villanova to the Big East I’d like to see the MAC offer East Carolina along with JMU and UMass. ECU picks up a lot of students from the NE cooridor and would like to be affilated with an eastern based conference.
A division with ECU, Temple, JMU, UMass would be better for the Pirates than UAB, Marshall, So Miss.
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